Defence Minister: Cepep, URP changes will save lives

SAYING failure to change the operations of both the Community-Based Environmental Protection and Enhancement Programme (Cepep) and the Unemployment Relief Programme (URP) would mean government being complicit in crime, Minister of Defence Wayne Sturge says these changes will save lives.

Speaking on the evening of July 29 at a constituency public consultation on the budget and stand-your-ground legislation, at the Sangre Grande Civic Centre, Sturge said had these two programmes been run properly, and in keeping with its true mandate of assisting the poorest and most vulnerable in society, "then both PNM and UNC could eat."

He said the operation of ghost gangs which have been paid millions of dollars over the years meant only a few had benefited from these two programmes.

“There are going to be changes, whether you like it or not, and these changes will cause teething problems and growing pains, but will save lives. Because in URP, like other endeavours in this jurisdiction, ghost money fuels crime, cause death and deprives people of money they need. So URP in particular has to be fixed,” Sturge told the forum.

The Toco/Sangre Grande MP said government found there were people working in the public service who were also collecting a URP salary without actually doing work in this relief programme.

“Maybe at some point, people will have to start getting charged because these programmes exist for a reason.”

He suggested single mothers should be first to get jobs, along with mandatory training in order to wean people off of URP. After two years in the programme, he said, these people would no longer be entitled to URP because by then they should have been properly trained to become employable outside of the programme.

He stressed that government was not closing down Cepep or URP but is looking at different ways to reform them. He said things had to change, but acknowledged change was hard to accept especially by those who have benefited from the status quo, and who would resist change.

He said most of the agencies under his ministry are short-staffed and government is looking at filling all its various vacancies. After these are filled, he said, URP would be addressed.

“If we can get youths from our community, from our constituency, to fill these vacancies, we’ll get them off the streets. But, again, I can’t just pick them up and carry them by the airport and tell the boss, ‘you have to take these people.’ It’s a process.”

Sturge added that while government was doing its audit, Cepep contractors were not being paid, but the workers were.

In addition, he said the government was not closing the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) but that, at the moment, there are no students.

This after reports that the contracts of about 70 CCC employees would not be renewed.

“What we can not do is spend $2 million a month on a programme when there are no students. They haven’t had students all year.”

He said the next intake of students will be in January and, at that point, the spending of taxpayer money would be justified.

Speaking on proposed stand-your-ground legislation, Sturge said he believes it offers more protection than common law. He explained the law at present allows for people to kill in self-defence, but the bill allows a resident to kill someone who enters their home once they honestly believe an attack is imminent.

But the law would look at the circumstances and what the person did in defending themselves, to determine if their action was proportionate to the threat.

Even as he touted the bill and its mandatory death sentence for the invader, if the resident was killed, Sturge said there were several aspects he did not like, including some of the exemptions and that the burden of proof was shifted to the home-owner.

“What it’s saying in essence is that you are not entitled to rely on self-defence if you are resisting a member of the armed services. Now I don’t like that.”

He said many times home-invasions were perpetrated by people dressed in police or army uniforms.

He advised people, if the behaviour of the people demanding you open your door was suspicious and you are uncertain whether or not they are real police officers, they should not open their doors.

He said the resident should try to verify the identity, maybe by calling the nearest police station, but if they believe if they do not act, they could be killed, then they should be entitled to shoot.

But if the resident believes the people at their door are officers legitimately carrying out their function, then the resident cannot claim self-defence if an officer was killed.

Other exemptions from the self-defence claim includes against members of the supplemental and estate police, Airports Authority and port police, members of the Police Complaints Authority (PCA) and prison officers.

“Their job is not to come by you at 4 o’clock in the morning to kick down the door. So I don’t think they should be able to get any exception.”

Sturge said the job of prison officers was to prevent 65-inch TVs from getting into prisons.

He was referring to a recent statement he made during a budget consultation in Freeport, when he said a prisoner in Building 13 at the Maximum Security Prison in Arouca had a 65-inch TV in his cell.

Since then, Prisons Commissioner Carlos Corraspe said that TV was in a common area, not in a cell.

Sturge said, “The reality is, the law is quite clear. The Commissioner of Prisons cannot authorise into the prison what the written law passed by Parliament says is not authorised. So they can continue to spin and play their games. This is fair warning.”

He went on to say he believed the only exceptions should be the police or Defence Force officers accompanied by the police.